In the first part of this two part epic, we looked at the myth that says you have to smarten yourself up in order to become a Christian. The illustrative question was "Do I have to stop sleeping with my girlfriend in order to become a Christian?", and Charles Price's rather surprising answer -- and the answer I agree with -- was that you don't have to stop doing that. There's nothing you can do or stop doing to make yourself more acceptable to God...well, almost nothing, which is where part two comes in.
I have no idea about what kind of person asked Charles Price the above question, but I'm going to assume it was someone genuine. Someone who really was seeking to become a Christian. As said already, Charles Price's answer to this person was "No. You don't have to smarten yourself up to become a Christian". However, that wasn't the end of the conversation. Mr Price went on to say "You become a Christian and allow Jesus Christ to come and live within you and I guarantee you this: within a very short time you will become very uncomfortable about sleeping with your girlfriend".
This young man had put the cart before the horse. He thought you had to clean up your life first, and then Christ comes in. But being "born again" doesn't happen like that. Jesus makes His home in our lives, and He cleans us up. To use some theological terms, this guy was trying to sanctify himself in order to be justified before God, but our sanctification is not our own work. Our sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit, and it is this work to which Charles Price alluded to when he said that "you will become very uncomfortable about sleeping with your girlfriend". And moreover, our sanctification only begins when we have already been justified. And we are not justified based on what we do or don't do, but based on our trust in Christ.
There is a very important word I haven't mentioned yet, and that word is repentance. I won't go into the ins and outs of the word, but at its root repentance means to have a changed mind. Now of course you can have a changed mind about specific things. We're told in John's gospel that the Holy Spirit will convict people of sin, and as He does this in individual lives people will begin to change their mind regarding certain practices. They will begin to see the error of their ways.
However, the biggest change doesn't so much have to do with the realization of specific sins, but rather it's the all encompassing change of mind that says "Left to my own devices, I am at emnity with God. I am a great sinner, and I need a Saviour". We change from being independent beings to very dependent beings. We adjust ourselves to the revelation of God found in Jesus Christ. Our opinion about ourselves changes, and our opinion about God changes.
And so back to the question again. "Do I have to stop sleeping with my girlfriend in order to become a Christian?". No, you don't. But if there is a genuine work of God in your life and if you are completely submissive to Him, this is something that you will want to stop doing. This will be the fruit in keeping with your repentance. You will have a new appetite for righteousness that you never had before. The Holy Spirit will bear witness with your spirit that you are a child of God, and you will desire nothing more than to please your heavenly Father.
Am I making becoming/being a Christian sound easy? Well if I am, I don't mean to. One could be forgiven for thinking that I'm implying that you don't have to give up anything or sacrifice anything in order to come to Christ, but nothing could be further from the truth. You don't just have to give up some things to become a Christian - you have to give up everything. Everything you are and have must be surrendered to the lordship of Christ. As Paul said, you become "not your own". You throw what you think you know about life into the bin, and you rely on what Jesus knows about life.
Of course this isn't a dramatic one-off transaction where everything that is wrong in your life is fixed. Our sanctification is an on going process. We are changed by degrees, but no matter how many years we are Christians we still struggle with sin. We know lusting is wrong, and yet we do it. We know we shouldn't lie, and yet our lips can be full of deceit sometimes.
But the wonderful truth of the Christian life is that it is not our behaviour which makes us belong to God. It is our belonging to Him by faith in Jesus that changes our behaviour. The Holy Spirit establishes that connection before any kind of behavioural change occurs. We can't do any good work or stop doing any bad work in order to belong. We belong because we believe that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, and was then raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3-4). We belong because we can say with the apostle Paul,
"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - Gal. 2:20
Will this produce a change in conduct? Absolutely, but only because our very character will be continually changed and molded by the indwelling Spirit of God. Trying to "stop sleeping with your girlfriend" before this character change occurs will be utterly useless. The belonging must come first, then the behaviour.
The bad news is that this tendency towards self-righteousness doesn't go away even when you do become a Christian. I know this from vast experience. We still try and do the right thing and fix ourselves up so that God will be pleased with us, but all of this is completely detached from Him. We strive to do His will, but we strive with our own strength, with the result usually being an external righteousness which desires nothing but the praise of other people rather than the praise of God.
But as Paul said to the Colossians, "as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him". None of us received Christ by doing good deeds. We received Him by faith, and that is how we continue in Him. That's the logic of Christianity. Sola gratia, sola fide, sola Deo gloria - by grace alone, through faith alone, and for the glory of God alone.
I have no idea about what kind of person asked Charles Price the above question, but I'm going to assume it was someone genuine. Someone who really was seeking to become a Christian. As said already, Charles Price's answer to this person was "No. You don't have to smarten yourself up to become a Christian". However, that wasn't the end of the conversation. Mr Price went on to say "You become a Christian and allow Jesus Christ to come and live within you and I guarantee you this: within a very short time you will become very uncomfortable about sleeping with your girlfriend".
This young man had put the cart before the horse. He thought you had to clean up your life first, and then Christ comes in. But being "born again" doesn't happen like that. Jesus makes His home in our lives, and He cleans us up. To use some theological terms, this guy was trying to sanctify himself in order to be justified before God, but our sanctification is not our own work. Our sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit, and it is this work to which Charles Price alluded to when he said that "you will become very uncomfortable about sleeping with your girlfriend". And moreover, our sanctification only begins when we have already been justified. And we are not justified based on what we do or don't do, but based on our trust in Christ.
There is a very important word I haven't mentioned yet, and that word is repentance. I won't go into the ins and outs of the word, but at its root repentance means to have a changed mind. Now of course you can have a changed mind about specific things. We're told in John's gospel that the Holy Spirit will convict people of sin, and as He does this in individual lives people will begin to change their mind regarding certain practices. They will begin to see the error of their ways.
However, the biggest change doesn't so much have to do with the realization of specific sins, but rather it's the all encompassing change of mind that says "Left to my own devices, I am at emnity with God. I am a great sinner, and I need a Saviour". We change from being independent beings to very dependent beings. We adjust ourselves to the revelation of God found in Jesus Christ. Our opinion about ourselves changes, and our opinion about God changes.
And so back to the question again. "Do I have to stop sleeping with my girlfriend in order to become a Christian?". No, you don't. But if there is a genuine work of God in your life and if you are completely submissive to Him, this is something that you will want to stop doing. This will be the fruit in keeping with your repentance. You will have a new appetite for righteousness that you never had before. The Holy Spirit will bear witness with your spirit that you are a child of God, and you will desire nothing more than to please your heavenly Father.
Am I making becoming/being a Christian sound easy? Well if I am, I don't mean to. One could be forgiven for thinking that I'm implying that you don't have to give up anything or sacrifice anything in order to come to Christ, but nothing could be further from the truth. You don't just have to give up some things to become a Christian - you have to give up everything. Everything you are and have must be surrendered to the lordship of Christ. As Paul said, you become "not your own". You throw what you think you know about life into the bin, and you rely on what Jesus knows about life.
Of course this isn't a dramatic one-off transaction where everything that is wrong in your life is fixed. Our sanctification is an on going process. We are changed by degrees, but no matter how many years we are Christians we still struggle with sin. We know lusting is wrong, and yet we do it. We know we shouldn't lie, and yet our lips can be full of deceit sometimes.
But the wonderful truth of the Christian life is that it is not our behaviour which makes us belong to God. It is our belonging to Him by faith in Jesus that changes our behaviour. The Holy Spirit establishes that connection before any kind of behavioural change occurs. We can't do any good work or stop doing any bad work in order to belong. We belong because we believe that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, and was then raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3-4). We belong because we can say with the apostle Paul,
"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - Gal. 2:20
Will this produce a change in conduct? Absolutely, but only because our very character will be continually changed and molded by the indwelling Spirit of God. Trying to "stop sleeping with your girlfriend" before this character change occurs will be utterly useless. The belonging must come first, then the behaviour.
The bad news is that this tendency towards self-righteousness doesn't go away even when you do become a Christian. I know this from vast experience. We still try and do the right thing and fix ourselves up so that God will be pleased with us, but all of this is completely detached from Him. We strive to do His will, but we strive with our own strength, with the result usually being an external righteousness which desires nothing but the praise of other people rather than the praise of God.
But as Paul said to the Colossians, "as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him". None of us received Christ by doing good deeds. We received Him by faith, and that is how we continue in Him. That's the logic of Christianity. Sola gratia, sola fide, sola Deo gloria - by grace alone, through faith alone, and for the glory of God alone.
While it is reassuring to know that Charles Manson stands a better chance of being spared Gods wrath than me I am sorry to say it was one of few things I found reassuring about this piece.
ReplyDelete''We change from being independent beings to very dependent beings.''
I am astonished that you would use such a statement in advocation of a religion. Such abstruse thinking... well I find it hard to comprehend let alone rebuke. Perhaps it is this acquiesence that troubles me most with religion. The practice of depending on God for all your answers, to call it unambitous is understating the matter, to call is sheer cowardice might be more appropriate. I once read that philosophy was the asking of questions which may never be answered, religion was answers that may never be questioned. What sort of world would we live in if we followed this practice of never looking for answers of our own, if we never became independent in our thoughts. What sort of a world? Probably a flat one I would suggest!!
''To try and bring ourselves up to "the standard" is completely counter-intuitive in God's mind, because by employing a DIY scheme of righteousness all we end up doing is actually usurping the role of Christ, and undermining the power and efficacy of His cross.''
How insecure is this Christ of yours? If I am to understand this being a righteous man, a good man, this is not sufficient, God has to make you so. To be independently morale and good would be to undermine God? Declan, you can't honestly believe this sort of thing?
''And we are not justified based on what we do or don't do, but based on our trust in Christ.''
I would suggest that men are not their intentions or their motives, what defines a man is his actions. George Bush is an adamant believer in JC, in fact he's used God to justify the killing of innocent children and that jusitifies it does it? The people who flew planes into the twin tower did so under the guise of working for a higher power, are they justified? I'm afraid ''what jesus knows about life'' is largely irrelevant, unless of course you need to build a nice set of shelves.
P.S. If he's not gonna sleep with his girlfriend can I?
I think you're taking the dependence thing to far. Im not suggesting that you consult the Bible in order to decide what breakfast cereal you're going to eat in the morning. To be dependent on God means that we realise that as humans, we are sinners, and that we cant change our condition ourselves. You may define our conditions as our actions, but I couldnt disagree more. Actions are vitally important, but if they dont flow out of a changed heart then they are largely worthless. A father can buy his son lots of things, but if there is no loving motive the action of giving will be meaningless in the long run. A husband can do lots of things for his wife, but if he is cold towards her do his actions really matter? I cant say from experience, but I very much doubt it.
ReplyDeleteAnd so it is our inner condition that needs changing, which is where we are utterly dependent on the work of God.
As for being independently moral and good, show me such a person. Show me the person whose heart has only displayed love since the day they were born. Show me the person who has only ever thought and acted righteously throughout their entire life. Show me the person who can stand completely innocent before a holy God. Only one such person has existed - Jesus. It's not because of insecurity on Christ's part that He wants us to rely on His perfect righteousness. It's because it's the only way we can be at peace with a holy God. This doesn't represent vanity or ego. It represents truth.
As for the George Bush example, I cant really comment on his faith. All I can say is that true trust in Christ produces good works which spring from a changed heart (though it must be noted that it NEVER produces perfection). The Bible makes that very clear. And as for the people responsible for 9/11, theirs is not a religion based on Christ's definitive action in history - the cross. As such, no, they are not justified before God, because it is not simply any kind of faith that justifies. Faith in my kitchen table doesn't justify me before God. Only faith in the blood of Christ does that. Jesus knew this while He was on earth, and so what He knows about life becomes very relevant.
The logic of your point is staggeringly short sighted, you portray a world where to love is a voluntary exercise, capriciously turned on and off like a light switch, whereas I would suggest how we feel is not something which we have much control over at all. What a world we would live in if you could choose who you loved, how easy that would be. I would suggest a husband who didn't really love his wife but stuck by her through cancer would be a great deal more noble than a man who loved his wife but never showed her how he felt. It's easy to do what we want to do, what is natural to us, it's a much different matter to do something when you don't want to do. To use your own little chappie, i don't think jc wanted to die on the cross but he did (well he didn't but lets say he did) and in that way it was his actions that defined even him.
ReplyDeleteThis God of yours isn't this immaculate person you describe and I shall not, nor should anybody else have justify themselves to him.
How convient that you can't comment on Bush's faith. But it matters little, heinous acts are committed everyday in the name of God, your God and their belief is no less relevant than yours, if anything I would suggest that the real monsters are the ones who take a much more literal interpretation on the bible than yours. God does hate fags after all.
Finally am I to conclude that by writing off the work of the 911 terrorist you are suggesting that their actions lacked justification because it was done in the name of the wrong God. Well taking that this is what you meant think about this. Your belief is merely a product of your environment, your parents, your time. That fact that you don't praise the sun is a matter of chance, if you were born two doors down the road you would believe something completely different in all likelihood. Did you ever consider being a Jew? Ever ponder whether you might make a better Hindu? To suggest your religion somehow has more merits than any other (&I include Scientology in this)is folly to say the least, myopic arrogance to be more accurate. You see we're both athiests Declan, I just go one God further than you!
You seem to be equating "the heart" or "love" with "feelings". While feelings make up a portion of the inner man, they're not the whole shebang. If I intimated as much then thats my bad. Love, while of course including feelings, goes beyond them. I'm no authority on love so I cant say much more (rather inconveniently if you ask me), but our inner person is made up of thoughts and a will. And if there is one thing I know for sure, its that my kitchen table deserves no veneration or praise for these things.
ReplyDeleteAs for God not being the immaculate person I describe, the revelation of Himself found in the person of Jesus leads me to believe that He is far greater than I can ever describe.
Yes, people do commit heinous acts in His name. but are you suggesting that human beings would not be capable of such things if no God existed or no God was even mentioned? And are you suggesting it's God's fault that these horrible things happen? If He doesn't exist, then shouldn't your anger be vented towards fellow humans and fellow humans alone? And yet correct me if Im wrong, but humans seem to be coming off quite well in your comments while God is mocked. That doesn't make much sense to me given that you're coming from the standpoint of no God.
Also, in no way did I mean to say the actions on 9/11 lacked justification because they were done for the wrong God. Their actions were wrong, and cannot be justified.
And as for your myopic arrogance charge, where is the arrogance in admitting your sin and your need for God? Where is the arrogance in relying on what the Creator of the world has done for you in order to have peace with Him? True Christianity is not the religion of arrogant men. In fact human arrogance is incompatible with Christianity, which was part of the point of the other post.
Of course the truthfulness of Christianity isn't so because of anything to do with humility. It is true because of the Resurrection. Everything Jesus said about God and Himself was verified when He walked out of the tomb. This historical event isn't grounds for being arrogant. It's the message of hope to be offered to a dying world.
I've just become aware that I said the cross was the message Christianity had to offer in one post, and then said the Resurrection was the message in this post. In reality the two can't be separated. If Jesus didn't rise on the third day, then the cross means nothing. So yeah, just wanted to clear that discrepancy up.
ReplyDelete